Welcome And The Playbook Promise

SPEAKER_00 0:12

Welcome to the sales and marketing playbook Unleashed, the premier podcast for innovative growth strategies, hosted by two seasoned experts. Meet Evan Poland, the president of Poland Performance Group, a master in sales coaching with over two decades of experience. Evan is not just a consultant, he's a force in sales, focusing on mindset, planning, and skill development. He's also the co-author of Selling Professional Services the Sandler Way. Joining him is Craig Andrews, partner and CEO of Beholder Agency, an expert in growth marketing. With 20 years under his belt, Craig blends marketing creativity with strategy to propel businesses forward, making Beholder Agency a leader in effective marketing solutions. Together, Evan and Craig are here to share their wisdom on winning strategies, best practices, and transformative insights that will fuel your growth. Get ready to revolutionize your sales and marketing approach right here on the Sales and Marketing Playbook Unleashed.

SPEAKER_03 1:11

And welcome to the Sales and Marketing Playbook Unleashed. I am your co-host, Craig Andrews, and my partner in crime, Evan Poland. How are you doing this morning, sir?

SPEAKER_02 1:20

I am doing great. I am really excited for our guest. How are you doing today?

SPEAKER_03 1:24

I'm not doing too bad. You know, um, I think that the topic today is going to be really good. And you know why they call us the playbook, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:32

We are giving them the answers before they even ask the questions.

Who We Help And Why

SPEAKER_03 1:36

That's correct. And we're trying to show you guys that the information we give you is so crucial to growing your business that if you don't follow us, I can't do anything about it. I tried. I tried to help you, but you didn't want to hear it. So that's fine. We'll be here eventually when you realize it, and then we'll be in your face saying, okay, let's start now, right? Well, we don't want to start late. We want to start now. So before we get going, you know, uh, why don't you give us a little bit of background in terms of who Poland Performance Group is?

SPEAKER_02 2:02

Sure. At Poland Performance Group, we help professionals who are looking to increase sales and grow their book of business. So folks who are out there trying to grow their practice, trying to grow their business, and just try having a hard time getting in front of their ideal prospects. Once they meet somebody, the time from first touch to getting an answer is just taking way too long. They're really good at what they do and just not getting as many referrals and instructions as they would like. And a lot of folks who are reaching out to me are business owners, managing partners of firms. They're frustrated because a small number of people within the firm, within the company are producing most of the new business, and they'd like others in their firm to be more successful in doing that business development and doing those sales. And Craig, why don't you tell everybody a little bit more about Beholder Agency?

SPEAKER_03 2:56

Sure. So Beholder Agency is a growth marketing firm that helps businesses connect their brand, their digital presidents, presence, excuse me, and their lead generation into one system designed to produce results. Now, a lot of times when people are coming to us from a marketing perspective, they have an idea of sales, but not necessarily the marketing. And then we talk about the marketing stuff and they go, but how does that gotta do with sales? We help tie that piece together by making people understand that it's a marketing engine that leads to leads, that leads to sales if you do it right, which is why me and Evan work so well together. I almost went this way, you saw that. That's why we work well this way, you know. Uh, because a lot of times when you put the two pieces together, growth happens naturally because at the end of the day, you become more accountable and everything else. Now, before we introduce the guest, AI, this is the thing I hear a lot, and you know we've been talking offline a lot, so I've been telling you, I come, I can do that in AI. I can do this in AI, I can do that in AI, and we're bringing somebody to the table here who's going to tell you because she does marketing as well. You know, marketing is the best part of this equation anyway, right?

SPEAKER_02 4:02

But coming from a marketing person, maybe a little bit. Oh, oh, overinflating, like yeah, what what what they're able to do when the results they're able to get that are unable to be tracked, but that that that's okay. We'll talk about that later.

Why LinkedIn Blends Sales Marketing

SPEAKER_03 4:14

We're gonna talk about how it can be tracked. That's why that's why we're bringing our guests in here, right? So at the end of the day, the whole point is that when marketing and sales are working together, you have trackable options that allow you to do what you do in your business and whatever you offer.

SPEAKER_02 4:27

So and our guest is a LinkedIn expert. And for those of you out there doing business development, LinkedIn is one of the places where sales and marketing absolutely come together. And it's a place where people absolutely confuse the two. And they think that marketing on LinkedIn is gonna turn into sales, or that one-on-one outreach is gonna get their message out to everyone. And I think today's guest is gonna help to give us a lot of best practices, how to look at measurable results and where AI fits into that equation when it comes to LinkedIn.

SPEAKER_03 5:02

And so uh without further ado, our guest today, Sharon Shapiro. Hi, Sharon, how are you? I'm good. How are you? Very good. Um, so we thank you for coming all over the the the pond, right? Um, and welcome to our the playbook. Uh so why don't you tell our guests a little bit about yourself?

SPEAKER_01 5:24

Uh so I'm Sharon Shapiro, uh, I run Broly Marketing, and as you said, we are a marketing uh agency, but we are also uh sales-led because my background is business development, and I started out as a bag carrying salesperson a long time ago, knocking on doors, cog calling, all the things that people don't really like doing. And let's face it, it's not easy. And then over the years, we've developed into full service marketing, uh, bringing on board experts in various areas, SEO and um visual identity, uh, web design. But the main thing for us is that we tend to look at solving people's problems. Um, and when people come to us, we like to work collaboratively with them to help them get to where they need to go, which is generally to acquire new business.

SPEAKER_03 6:20

Sounds all good, doesn't it, Evan? See, that's a marketing person talking right now, just so you know, first and foremost. Um yeah, um, so tell us a little bit about your um the LinkedIn piece, which I know Evan and I are both very good fans of. I am horrible with it. I'm still working on it, Evan. I'll get there, I promise.

SPEAKER_02 6:38

I I don't know that it's a passing fad that's going away anytime soon. No, I don't think so. That's pretty proven.

LinkedIn As A Living Database

SPEAKER_01 6:46

Um, so LinkedIn's a platform that I've used for a long, long time, um, predominantly for outreach and research. So it's a place where obviously it's been used for recruitment uh and and still is, but from a sales standpoint, it is a really powerful tool because it has a database with millions of people on it. But the best part is they're updating it themselves because of course they've got their own profiles on there, and if they are active on LinkedIn, then they will be keeping it up to date. So that's the first thing because garbage in, garbage out. So you've got to have good data. Um, and then latterly, what we've started to do is to come up with a process uh with a combination of automation um and some manual work and collaboration to do a system, two different systems, which we'll I think go into a bit more detail uh perhaps further on into the call. Um one which is for new connections, and one which is reaching out to your existing connections, first connections, because your first connections are a bit like I don't know whether you've come across the term closed lost. It's kind of a bit of a sales force term. Um but you know, lots of people have folks that they are connected to or have had some sort of touch point with, and they they haven't actually spoken to them or reached out to them in a really long time. And often people have first connections that fit into that category. So in fact, using a specific uh mutual client of Evan and myself, um, what we did was Evan worked with the data um for this particular client on LinkedIn, which was brilliant from my standpoint because again, the garbage in, garbage out applies. So I've got a good set of data, and then we started to craft a message that was authentic. Um, it wasn't that I want to sell to you because that doesn't work, people really don't like it. Um, it was more around um, this is what I've been doing, and you may not know some things around you know what I have done in my career. Um, and I'd be really interested in having virtual coffee and understanding what you're doing, and the results have been off the scale. I mean, unbelievable. In fact, we were doing some numbers last night to have a look at some of the results, and I also had an opportunity to catch up with the client, and she is, I mean, apart from anything else, she's working really well with the process that Evan um kind of suggests, if you like, um, or gives. Um, so I know this is not a plug for you, Evan, but honestly, working on both sides makes a big difference for me because it makes my job easier. It means that I've got the tools in the first place, I've got the data, the client knows what they're doing, and and I can do the kind of what I'd call the front end, the the kind of real um, you know, getting on out there and helping them to kind of knock on doors and and so on and so forth.

Turning Connections Into Conversations

Grade Your Network For Focus

SPEAKER_02 10:02

And they and I know we're gonna talk a little bit about AI and automation, but this may be a good place to kind of jump in and maybe fill in some of the backstory. So one of the things that I will do with my clients for LinkedIn is really look at it as a sales engine. And I will ask my clients to download all of their LinkedIn connections into an Excel spreadsheet. The majority of folks out there don't know that that's possible, but you can do it, which makes it much easier than forever scrolling through LinkedIn and never getting to the end. And then what I ask my clients to do is grade their contacts, kind of from from an A to an F, um, you know, from know these people really well, they would immediately respond if I reached out to I have no idea how I connected to this person 12 years ago. And what we will do is have people again grade their contacts. So again, if they're working with someone like Sharon, if they're doing their own proactive LinkedIn reach out, they can reach out to the folks who are going to most likely get back to them, most likely be folks in position to have good conversations, give them business, give them referrals, give them good market insight. And quite frankly, that's something that AI really can't replace, that human intelligence. AI doesn't know how who how your relationship with is with them, how you met them before you connected with them on LinkedIn. So that's where that human element comes in. And we really need that intelligence and that strategy piece to know what kinds of people do we want to meet, what kinds of conversations do we want to have, so that when we have someone like Sharon doing the outreach, the outreach is going to be much more likely to be successful because we've got a strategy in place and it's not just random, it's not just the first hundred on the list, uh, but there's real strategy behind it. So I just thought it would be important to kind of fill in the backstory a little bit in terms of how the two really need to work together and how it can't be completely hands-off on the client side, but they need to be able to provide insight for a process like this to work.

SPEAKER_03 12:10

And I think that the key part to this, and I want to make sure that we're not scaping over the the simplicity of this. One, we're almost doing what we used to do way back when, when we actually met with people and had conversations and learned these little details. Two, we all used to have a notebook in which we or cards or business cards that we would hand out in which we were getting some of that back guarantee. The the AI, the slash, the internet, and everything else, and everything that we're doing digitally allows us to reinvent that. So a lot of times when people are trying to skip over that and get to the end and sell it real quick, they're losing out on all the material that might lead to a bigger deal, a bigger contract, a more depth, or maybe referrals that would come across than a lot stronger than just, hey, I just want to connect with you and LinkedIn and move on to the next person, right? So we're really not saying that. Uh Sharon.

SPEAKER_01 13:02

Um Yeah, I would 100% agree with that. It's a relationship-building exercise, it's the ability to look at who they are and what they do. In the case of the client, the mutual client that we're referring to, um, you know, big high-ticket clients of theirs would be the order of the day. And one of the things that um the client was saying yesterday is once you've got that meeting set up, which is amazing, you've still got to go out and do the work and understand who it is you're going to meet with. And she was saying it that she can spend up to a couple of hours before she'll go on to a meeting. So, you know, it's the whole process. But again, LinkedIn can inform that uh because it can form part of your research naturally. Um, and then there's the additional research on top, but you've just got the whole process. So it's not an instant, quick one and done, and it shouldn't be, in my well, in my opinion, because I think that if you're going to have a long-lasting relationship with these individuals, then you need to build it slowly. And trust is a big thing in these types of relationships as well, and these types of clients, professional services, you know, and so on.

SPEAKER_02 14:20

The other thing I think it's important to point out is the overwhelming majority of people say, I don't get anything out of LinkedIn. If all you do is create a LinkedIn profile and occasionally connect with folks, you're not going to get anything out of it. It's like in the old days, if you joined a Chamber of Commerce or Professional Association, wrote the check, got put into the directory, but then never showed up to an event, never checked in with any of the members, you're not going to get anything. So just simply being on the platform isn't enough. You need to proactively use it, whether you're doing things from a marketing perspective to get your name out there more, whether you're doing more one-to-one outreach, like what Sharon's explaining, to try to actually connect individually with folks to take the conversation off of LinkedIn into the real world to really connect and talk with folks. If you're not doing that and just have a profile on the platform, I promise you will get exactly what you put into the platform. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 15:24

Absolutely. Now, a lot of things that you touched upon, Sharon, hits both of our uh our our blood flag points, right? So, one, you mentioned garbage in, garbage out, as Evan knows, and everybody who watches shows knows data, data, data is so important, so important in a world that you're not really engaging with people on a regular basis. So understanding who you're talking to, why you're talking to them in the whole nine yards is incredibly important. The other thing that uh is important from a my end is making sure we're not touching vanity metrics. I got I got 400 clicks yesterday. My next question would go, and then how many converted? And they'll go, Oh, I don't know. Like, well, that's that's a problem, right? So when you're talking about the data and the and the conversion, this is how the sales and marketing piece among the three of us work together. Because at the end of the day, I don't care about the clicks. That's a vanity thing. Wow, I got you a lot of clicks. I could I can put an ad up and get you tons of clicks, but if they're not converting, it doesn't mean anything to anybody. And so that part is what sticks out to me. The other thing, in terms of when you were referencing in the sales side of things, in terms of LinkedIn and the automation, talk talk to us a little bit in terms of how AI operates through the LinkedIn process.

SPEAKER_01 16:39

So once we've got the data, and sometimes so if we didn't have the data in the way that Evan would have the clients produce it, which is a really valid way, by the way, and we do kind of combinations sometimes of download the data, then you've got to do a bunch of segmentation. So that's the first place that we'll start using uh a combination of the filters and Boolean search. Um, and then we might run, and this is the tech side of it, and I have to say I'm just the mid salesperson, so I don't, you know, I don't do all the clever tech stuff, but Sam, who works with us, absolutely does. Uh, he's head of the tech on our side. And uh he will run some scripts or some codes, sometimes do AI, sometimes he'll write the code himself, um, and then do a bunch of data analysis. So that's the kind of first place where you might say that automation or AI is being used. And again, you know, we've had data for years, right? I mean, I used to sell data lists when it was a thing. Nowadays nobody does that anymore, or not in the same way anyway. And uh, you know, you still needed to define the data down to a sensible set of data of target audience. Um, so once you've got that, then depending on the campaign that we're running, it will be um if it's existing connections, then we will create uh a message that is um there's there's about two or three different messages that we will kind of do some ABC testing on. Um and we do use a bit of automation there, but that's generally where we'll interview the clients, we'll actually find out really what they're about. What can we speak about that is actually authentic, that they're comfortable with? Because that's the other thing about LinkedIn, you know. Everybody always says, Oh, LinkedIn, LinkedIn, LinkedIn, it's amazing, you should use it, right? But some clients don't really like it, they don't believe in it. And if they don't believe in it, then they're not going to be effective anyway, because they're not, to your point, Evan, actually going to be active on it, because they think it's a waste of time at best, and at worst, they just don't like it. So there's there's something around that which I think a lot of people don't take into account. Um, so then the next thing is you've got your message set up, and then we've got our data set, and what we will do is through the automation process which we've uh developed uh in the time zone of the individual, wherever they are, because we have a lot of clients in the states, uh, we will set up the outreach campaign very much in the parameters of um what LinkedIn will allow so that it is as humanly, you know, like human as possible. Um, and you're constrained anyway by the amount of messages that you send out. So that's the other thing about what we do. We don't flood, we don't go for Macs, because going for Mac straight out is going to get you shut down. And that's not what we're about. We're about, you know, careful approach. So that's on the existing, and then on the new ones, that's rather more the first connections that we're trying to reach out to. That's a very sophisticated system that we've set up, which has you know shown some amazing results in terms of connections, uh, much, much higher than the industry standard. And that is where for the data set that we've uh decided upon and worked with collaboratively with the client, we will download that data set, and then what we will do is the message for the person that we are representing, or the persona, you know, everything about them, the automation piece will match the persona of the individual with the person on the list. So every single profile will be looked at individually through the automation process. Something will be picked up throughout the whole of the LinkedIn profile. So it isn't just looking at the headline, for example, or the you know, descriptive about me description or whatever. It's the whole of it, and it will pick up some items within there, uh, within the parameters of the characters that you're allowed, because you're only allowed 300 up to 300 characters. Um, and it will create a message which says, Dear John, I notice that you have an interest in XYZ. I also am involved with, or something that's relevant to would be great to connect. And that's it. We're just trying to connect at that point, but we're kind of trying to connect as if it was, you know, the person that we're representing actually having done that work. And the beauty of this is that, you know, we can all do it manually, of course, or we could even do it on an automated basis with a standard message. But what we know is that the results just don't come back. Right.

SPEAKER_02 21:38

And I think we've all gotten those standard messages from bots that look very body. I probably get six or seven of them a day, and you can tell very quickly that no thought was put behind it. It was just mass put out there by somebody who's got 12 connections on LinkedIn.

SPEAKER_03 21:57

The tall tail cell signs, right.

unknown 22:00

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 22:01

Um so Evan, talk talk to us about this uh the sales perspective here. What type of things would this would this help from a sales perspective?

SPEAKER_02 22:09

So a couple of things. Again, with with Sharon's approach and what we're talking about in terms of customized messaging, reaching out to your target. If we want to start to really genuinely develop a relationship, if we want to eventually do business or develop a strategic relationship, we need to get it from out of LinkedIn and into the real world and actually having a back and forth conversation. So putting something like this in place for someone like our shared client who may only have an hour to a day at best for business development, it allows the process to happen and work in the background while they're doing the their billable work so that at the end of the day they can have those conversations kind of the beginning of those conversations flow back and forth so that then they can jump in when the real conversation starts. And quite frankly, and Craig, you've probably seen the same from a marketing perspective. The biggest challenge is getting somebody to respond to get that back and forth dialogue. So if a lot of that front-end work can take place, and then as the professional, you're jumping in when somebody has been primed, when they're open to having the conversation, it's going to make us a lot more effective. And Craig, going back to you know, something you said at the beginning of the day, that is, at least from a sales perspective, more important than the vanity metrics of I got 4,000 impressions and I got 22 people to like it. Well, if we're not having conversations with any of those folks, you know, if it's just random folks and not really the kind of folks we're targeting, I'm not quite sure how much all of that means.

SPEAKER_03 24:02

And the thing that I want to make sure I really emphasize here, because we are the playbook, is understand, look at it like a train going by. All of this stuff in terms of automation and the AI stuff that's kind of taking effect is like a moving train. At some point in time, you have to stop and get off it and actually talk to the people. Is this you can't automate yourself all the way to a sale, right? You got to get off the train at some point and have a conversation. So a lot of clients that I've dealt with in the past goes, well, I can just automate this, I can just do that. Yes, it's great. Get it going, but who's talking to the end? And and I know one of the things that we talked about prior to the sale or to this, this, to this, um, to this podcast was clients who weren't answering the phone. Drives me crazy. They're calling you, we're doing the marketing stuff, they're calling you because they have a pain, they have a concern, and they're saying, I believe you can help me, but if you don't answer the phone or you've got an automated system to answer it, right, you're going to lose. You're going to lose those sales in a heartbeat because I can always find the answer somewhere else quicker. Right.

SPEAKER_02 25:05

And if I'm not comfortable with you and we don't have any kind of relationship, if you're not the cheapest price, I'm probably going to go somewhere else. That's right.

Evan’s 12-Week Sales Program

SPEAKER_03 25:14

That's right. So, Sharon, this part of the podcast is when I want you to take a moment to think about the top three things that you want to leave with our audience. In the meanwhile, uh, while you're thinking about it, Evan, my friend, my my my confidant, here, bang, right there on screen. And for the listeners, what is what is that QR code? It's a QR code that I have up on screen that you can use to scan and go to Evan's 12-week sales training program. So, Evan, tell them about your 12-week sales training program.

SPEAKER_02 25:44

So uh thanks, Craig. I I I I'm shocked and I really appreciate you you you teeing me up for that. Um, so starting after Memorial Day, starting on June 9th, going to be running a 12-week program. The program is going to focus on how to grow, how to increase your business. So we're going to be focusing on how to develop the right kind of prospecting plan, how to get in front of more of your ideal kinds of clients, how to better qualify the opportunity. And for a lot of us, unfortunately, we're stepping on our own toe. We're getting in our own way, and it's the stuff in between our ears that's keeping us from being more successful when it comes to sales and business development. So we're going to put everybody who's going through the program on the couch. We're going to address what some of those issues are so that we can get out of our own way to be more successful. Um, we're only five months into the year right now, so there's still seven months left in the year to make sure that you can achieve your goals. So this is going to be weekly sessions. Everybody involved is going to be getting access to an accountability app to really help you focus on growing your sales. So if you're interested, hit the QR code, go to web my website, which is polinpg.com, to get more information, to register. We look forward to seeing you there. So, Craig, I appreciate that you plug.

Patience Tenacity And Positivity

SPEAKER_03 27:07

No, no worries, no worries at all. Now, what I'll say is to kind of add to that, is all the stuff that we talked about here in terms of Evan's magical sauce in terms of getting on LinkedIn and doing all this stuff, he covers in that program. So if you want more in-depth in terms of how he operates with that program, it's important that you register. It's important that you're in that class or program, I should say, because at the end of the day, there's a lot of things that we don't know. And I've been through that program at least five times because there's always something I don't remember in terms of improving the process with myself, with my partner, with our staff. So, and get into the program, make sure that you guys are listening close because he does challenge you, which is what we really love about it, right? Craig, did you do your LinkedIn profile recently? My fault. No, I'll get on that now. Right? It always happens in the program, and he's always making sure he takes care of you. So it's a very important thing. So, Sharon, you're up. Three things you want to leave with our audience um in terms of what you do and how you do it.

SPEAKER_01 28:11

Well, uh I was gonna come up with three things I think are important that Yes.

SPEAKER_02 28:16

No, I I I think that that that's key. Come up with, you know, share with us two or three things that are really important for people to kind of maximize LinkedIn. And then after you're done that, we want to give you an opportunity to give a plug. So also then let people know how they can get in touch with you uh if they want to learn more.

SPEAKER_01 28:34

Perfect. So the first one is be patient. If you are looking to make sales, unless you are selling a widget or something that you can buy off the shelf, it's going to take time. And a lot of people are not patient. You do have to have patience, especially with this type of campaign and this type of uh platform. The next thing is be tenacious, okay? So a lot of people give up quite early on. Oh, this is not working, or I've tried this, oh, I've called them up five times, and you know, although they actually don't call them five times, they call them once, and then of course they can't get through and they give up. Don't give up. And then the third thing is be positive, right? If you don't believe in what you're selling, the client is going to know it or the prospect, and they aren't going to believe you, so you have to remain positive. Um, and certainly in sales, you definitely have to remain positive. Um, and the LinkedIn is kind of just backing all of that up, it's giving you the tools to enable you to go out and be effective.

SPEAKER_03 29:41

Yep. All great stuff, all great stuff.

SPEAKER_02 29:44

So and Sharon, how how can people get in touch with you if they want to learn a little bit more about what you do?

SPEAKER_01 29:49

Sure. So I am on LinkedIn, strangely enough. Um and uh I don't know if there's a facility for putting that information there, but I'm sure you'll add that uh on. Um, you can find us through our website, which is brolymarketing.co.uk. So we call an umbrella of Broly for slang, so hence Broly Marketing. Um, and that's probably the best way of getting in touch.

Where To Find Us

SPEAKER_03 30:16

Very good, very good. And so you've heard it here. You've heard it here first from the playbook, where again we're delivering the information way before you guys realize you need it. And if you're not listening, we warned you. We warned you. You can always rewind this and replay it. And what I'm telling you now, you need this information because we know among the three of us that most of you guys aren't doing it. So that's why we're here. We're here to help you and give you information. If you have any questions, if you have any things that you want to add to the mix, by all means reach out to us on our LinkedIn. Uh we have the sales and marketing playbook LinkedIn page, uh, in addition to our website, which is SMPlaybookunleash.com, uh, in which we have all of our episodes and all the information and resources on there as well. Um, so Evan, how can they find us, my friend?

SPEAKER_02 31:02

So again, uh you mentioned they can find us on YouTube at SM Playbook. They can go to Spotify, Apple, wherever they find their favorite podcast, as well as check out for clips and links um on LinkedIn uh to give you a little taste of what we're doing on each episode.

SPEAKER_03 31:20

Awesome. So, Sharon, thank you very much. I'm Craig, your co-host, and my partner in crime, Evan Poland. Until next time, keep winning.

SPEAKER_00 31:32

Thank you for joining us on this exhilarating journey through the world of sales and marketing. Remember, the playbook is in your hands and the possibilities are limitless. Keep exploring, experimenting, and innovating, and watch as your business reaches unprecedented levels of success. Don't forget to subscribe to the Sales and Marketing Playbook unleashed on all major podcast platforms and follow us on YouTube, Facebook, and LinkedIn for even more exclusive content. Until next time, keep hustling and keep winning.