Speaker 1: 0:19

Thank you experts. Meet Evan Polin, the president of Polin Performance Group. A master in sales coaching with over two decades of experience, evan is not just a consultant. He's a force in sales, focusing on mindset, planning and skill development. He's also the co-author of Selling Professional Services the Sandler Way. Joining him is Craig Andrews, partner and CEO of Beholder Agency. An expert in growth marketing With 20 years under his belt, craig blends marketing creativity with strategy to propel businesses forward, making Beholder Agency a leader in effective marketing solutions. Together, evan and Craig are here to share their wisdom on winning strategies, best practices and transformative insights that will fuel your growth. Get ready to revolutionize your sales and marketing approach right here on the Sales and Marketing Playbook Unleashed.

Speaker 2: 1:12

And welcome to the Sales and Marketing Playbook Unleashed. We have our special guest. I did it again, Evan. I did it again Our special guest, Mark Sinkow, who's with us here today. So I'm excited to have Mark on today. Here's why I'm excited is that there's moments in time where me as a business owner, Evan, you as a business owner, or other business owners in general, are in a position where we can get frustrated. We can't quite vent to the right people about what concerns we have with the business, only because of the fact that not everybody's going to understand our pain. We kind of sit in a special place. So Mark is a guy who actually brings all these CEOs together and then they discuss and he's going to go through that kind of the things that CEO people have, their problems they have and how we can move forward with it. Evan, what's your take on it?

Speaker 3: 2:04

before we introduce Mark, so I am lucky enough to have been a beneficiary of Mark Services. I've been a client of Mark's in the past. I'm really really excited to have Mark on today. I think that he provides a really valuable resource for business owners where it's lonely at the top and maybe we'll get into being you know being at the top and you know what Mark's clients call him. I don't know if he wants that known publicly, but we'll kind of get into that as we bring him on stage. But I'm really really excited. I think there's going to be a lot of value and a lot of benefit for our listeners today, for our viewers today, in terms of what Mark has to bring to the table and how it kind of sits in between what you and I do and, quite frankly, sits over top it and deals with the overall running in small and mid-sized businesses.

Speaker 2: 2:51

Absolutely so. As a background, Mark has a background in manufacturing and distribution in the healthcare industry, establishing and running several companies, so he has a little bit of an idea. Today he runs a board of advisors for entrepreneurs.

Speaker 4: 3:08

So welcome everyone to Mark Sinkow. Thank you guys, it's a pleasure being here today.

Speaker 3: 3:13

Mark, welcome to the show, and I want to start with a really hard hitting question, hopefully one that won't drive you off the show. But your clients call you, kind of, the chief Sherpa. What does that mean?

Speaker 4: 3:28

and how did you get that title? So all business owners those that I work with want to take their businesses to the next level, and a Sherpa takes their people that they're leading to the top of Mount Everest. So that was the purpose of titling myself that he's the guy to the top of Mount Everest. So that's that was the purpose of of titling myself.

Speaker 3: 3:49

So your clients come in with low expectations and just want to be brought to the top of the highest mountain.

Speaker 4: 3:56

I wouldn't say they come with low expectations. I mean, in order to be an entrepreneur, you have to have a little bit of ego. That's there. But you kind of need to park that. Park that at the door, because if you think you have all the answers, it doesn't work well within the environment that I establish. But every member that I've got realizes that they can learn from others and they want to share their experience.

Speaker 3: 4:24

And that's the secret sauce. It's all in the membership. So, mark, for people who may not be may not be familiar with CEO roundtables peer to peer roundtables can you maybe spend two or three minutes to talk to folks a little bit about kind of how your business works, how your sessions work and where your clients really see the benefit of working with you and working within the roundtables?

Speaker 4: 4:51

So there's really three components. The first component is holding one another accountable. So we start meetings with something called significant events and it's an update on what's happened in the last 30 days, both business, personally and professionally. And if they processed an issue which I'll get to in a second events, um, and it's an update on what's happened in the last 30 days, both business, uh, personally and professionally. And if they processed an issue, which I'll get to in a second um, you know what have they done and what successes have the successes or failures? I mean, that's like we learn more from our our mistakes and failures than we do from our success. Um, so we start with meeting with that.

Speaker 4: 5:20

Then oftentimes I'll bring in a speaker. It could be on topics such as culture or growth related, obtaining financing, it could be just some personal issues during COVID, for example, as a psychiatrist come in because you know not only was it the business owner themselves, but it was their employees. And how do you deal with that? I mean, like we're isolated, it was a completely different environment and then the meat of the business, or the meat of the meeting, is processing issues. So, at the end of the day, regardless of the industry that you're in, we all do sales and marketing, finance and accounting and operations. So whether you're a sales training coach or whether you're running a manufacturing concern or you're running an HVAC company, we all do those things. So, within issue processing, someone brings a question to the group and from that with that they provide what's significant background information, what they've done to date, what's getting in their way and what they want to get from the group. And we just want to pull back again, guys. Yeah, could I freeze?

Speaker 3: 6:29

No, no, we're sitting in here and you're just fine.

Speaker 4: 6:31

Okay, your screen went black, my screen's black.

Speaker 3: 6:36

Hit your mouse for a second. That's what happened to me before I started to blink.

Speaker 4: 6:40

Okay.

Speaker 2: 6:40

You went to sleep.

Speaker 4: 6:41

Yeah, I'm sorry. Okay, so now I can't even do that. So, anyway, so the issue is shared with the group in that format, and then we do something called clarifying questions. So we go around the room, everybody asks questions in regards to whatever that issue might be, and there's no recommendations right away. We all want to go directly to the solution, but it's my job to keep that from happening, because, although you'll never know exactly what another member in the group does, but you can gain clarity in order to be able to come up with recommendations.

Speaker 4: 7:15

So we go through a series of questions that everybody participates in and then, at the conclusion of that, we ask the member that brought the issue to sit back and listen to the collective intelligence of those in the room. So the other members, if they were faced with the same situation or question, what would they do based on their experience? And the member that brought the issue sits back and just listens and then, subsequent to that, in subsequent meetings, with the recommendations that were noted, we'll go back and we'll ask that specific member. You know, what have they done, what have they accomplished and what were the results?

Speaker 3: 7:49

And, mark, I've got to say, as someone who was a client of yours, participated in those groups. The other thing that's great about those groups and I know that you purposely have it set up that way is that there are people from all different kinds of businesses, so there may be people with legal background, there may be people with accounting background with that, so you get all kinds of different perspectives and sometimes out of the box thinking and things that worked in other industries or businesses that that business owner didn't really think about. That can be readily applicable, that they never would have gotten anywhere else If they either didn't ask anybody or they were asking all people in their own industry for the feedback or kind of getting one voice. So that's something else that I found really valuable when I sat in those rooms is getting so many different perspectives and different takes to really be able to come up with unique solutions.

Speaker 4: 8:41

So, if you don't mind, I'll share with you a quick story. So last week we had a member. There's a company that has a manufacturing concern but complementary to that they have an insurance component of the business that they provide insurance and it happens to be in floodproofing, so it's a unique product that they've got. And then there's a third division. So they have three silos of profit centers. The company recently was acquired and they're part of profit centers. The company recently was acquired and they're part of private equity.

Speaker 4: 9:14

So the gentleman that's in the group was running the insurance company, which contributes a minor component of the total sales, and he's now not only running that business but he's now a member of the entire entity.

Speaker 4: 9:31

So his time was being distracted, running just the insurance component, which is maybe 10 of the revenues of the whole company, and he was having difficulty determining how he was going to disassociate himself or focus his attention on the more profitable end, because he's now a shareholder in the entire entity.

Speaker 4: 9:51

Wow, and you know we went through clarifying questions and open-ended questions. And then one of the recommendations which he never thought of and because it's private equity, they have to meet certain numbers and the revenues generated didn't warrant several high-paying salaried employees in that entity. So one of the recommendations which was brilliant was, you know, take the number that that he was making and apply it to one of the other very high generating revenue entities and then take a reduced number and bring in somebody to run the operational component of the entity that he was doing. And then it was a matter of managing his time and it was like a light bulb went off and nobody within his organization thought of that either. But it's the benefit of having 12 to 15 different minds thinking about a specific issue or challenge.

Speaker 2: 10:49

And they would end up seeing it in different perspectives to your point. You were challenged and they would end up seeing it in different perspectives to your point. So the question I have based off of that story is how was this guy able to come back and later measure the growth that was coming from that? Were you able to share that? So?

Speaker 4: 11:03

I can't give you a specific answer, because this happened last Friday. Ok, so I can. If we do this again in another month, I can tell you exactly what I can. So, I have no doubt that they'll institute that, and the person that he reports to is the CEO is a wonderful individual that is both client centric and employee centric, and he listens to his people. So, and this guy's a part of the senior leadership.

Speaker 2: 11:29

So that leads me to another question then. So in the process of what we do, which is sales and marketing, obviously you have other legs of the table that you referenced how do you make sure that all these ideas that these CEOs are coming up with are staying customer centric? Right, so it's easy for us to sit there and speak on it and have these other points, but sometimes the customer gets lost in that equation. Do you guys ever have challenges like that?

Speaker 4: 11:54

Well, so within the group, the accountability component is coming back and sharing with the group what they've done and how it's impacted the company. But everybody's goal obviously is to row in the same direction. And if they're not and by the way that's a common issue is that you've got employees that may not be and therefore you need to make changes. Whether the sharp knife cuts the cleanest and they're not right for the role or you do, you go through. Well, usually it's a process of training to see if you can salvage the situation, and if you can't, then you have to make that tough decision.

Speaker 3: 12:30

So, mark, I think that's something that Craig and myself see on a regular basis is sometimes the business owner may have a vision, but that may not be directly communicated with marketing and sometimes, if a company has separate sales and marketing, marketing is going in one direction.

Speaker 3: 12:48

Sales are seeing something else. When they're actually out there talking to potential customers, potential clients or an entrepreneur, a business owner may be going a thousand miles an hour but haven't really articulated to the team what the vision is, why they're doing certain things. Have you seen any of that in terms of just lack of communication and people not being on the same page within the same organization? And, if so, what are some of the suggestions that you have for folks to get teams back on the same page to make sure that the owner is spending enough time making sure that the rest of the organization, the rest of the team, is on board and understands what the vision is? But have you seen some of those problems and how have you addressed some of that? If you've seen some of those problems and how you address some of that, if you've seen some of those communication type of issues, Well, 100 percent.

Speaker 4: 13:35

I mean with the size businesses that we all deal with. Oftentimes, you're right, the, the owner, doesn't take a step back and they don't look. Look at the situation and not everybody's the best communicator in the world, right? I mean that's why we have behavioral assessment testing, which we talk about. I mean that's why we have behavioral assessment testing, which we talk about. So they need to know what their strengths and their weaknesses are.

Speaker 4: 13:56

And a common theme is how important communications are because, at the end of the day, our employees are our most valuable asset. You make like, assist us in taking the business to the next level, or they could be a detriment and there could event. You know, within the organization, if you don't have the right people in the right seats, and then within that like, for example, we talk about, you know strategies and processes that you would use to run a business. Perfect example is EOS, the Employer Operating System. You know it's a wonderful method in which to identify the situation and work on communication through the organization.

Speaker 4: 14:37

But another quick story for you. It's in the same realm that you're talking about. We had a member and he was concerned that those that were working for him he's a service provider and that they weren't managing and recording their time properly. Well, after going through the issue, when we, you know, we did that process what really came out of it and this happened years ago was when he worked for somebody else. He hated to monitor his time and he was like the worst culprit. Well, if you don't set the stage at the top, how would you expect your employees to follow suit? And it was.

Speaker 3: 15:18

He had an epiphany mark, do what I say, not what I do exactly.

Speaker 4: 15:24

That's not a great way to run a business. It's not a look. It's like, you know, teaching our. You know, if we don't, we need to set an example. He didn't set the proper example, but when he saw it, and you know, he realized that he made the change.

Speaker 2: 15:40

And I think that years ago because Mark and I go back a year ago as well that's one of the situations that came to came to light is because you're sitting there with other CEOs and we're all going. You didn't really set in the beginning, did you? You didn't really quite set it up in the beginning. So it makes sense. Maybe you should set it up in that light bulb moment that goes off and you go. Wait a minute, I'm the issue. Okay, I need to adjust how I do things.

Speaker 3: 16:16

So now I can communicate better down the line to the right people and all of a sudden, like you said, we're all rowing in the same direction and, mark, is that why you have 12 to 16 people in the room, because sometimes somebody who doesn't realize that they're the issue they need to hear it from like 13, 14 different people before they start to believe it.

Speaker 4: 16:23

Sometimes we need to get hit over that.

Speaker 2: 16:26

We've had that conversation too, so one of the things that we like to do is in your perspective, in your role, what tips could you give our viewers in reference to why they would want to be part of a CEO round table? Any feelings on that so?

Speaker 4: 16:47

the ideal person for a group like this is someone that really is interested in learning and growing. They're life learners and they're willing to accept information and suggestions and recommendations from others. If somebody thinks they have all the answers, not a good member. And I can tell you, in the beginning, when you do what I do, you just want somebody with a pulse. But after having done it for God it's over 15 years at this point you know who's going to be a good member and who's not. And it's those life learners. And look, those are the individuals that we all want as clients, right? I'm sure, craig, you want them that way and I know Evan wants them that way, because that's that's an opportunity for success.

Speaker 3: 17:35

Mark, one of my favorite sayings. I know you've heard me say it before Not everybody's trainable, Not everybody's coachable.

Speaker 4: 17:42

Right, that's true.

Speaker 2: 17:44

Yeah, yeah and so, mark, you've been great on the show.

Speaker 4: 17:47

Tell people how they can get in contact with you if they're interested on the show tell people how they can get in contact with you if they're interested. So my website is wwwsynch-ollccom and you'll get an overview of like what I do and how I do it, and actually I list all my members online so you can even reach out to them, and my phone number is 610-331-3998. I will always get back to you in less than 24 hours and what I do is very rewarding. It's a lot of fun and but it's all about the members. It's you know, and my job is to put the right team together. And at this point, having done it for as long as I've done it, I've got a couple of. I've got great groups. I mean, you know, I guess I'm biased, but I've got great members.

Speaker 4: 18:39

And one thing that I will share with you is that, going into COVID, I thought that I was going to be a non-essential expense. I pivoted my business. We have monthly meetings. I went to the weekly meetings. I ended up being a business support group. I deal with 90 different business centers. I think I had four that may have paused and then they ended up coming back because we didn't know what we didn't know and we helped one another to make it through and everybody came through ultimately unscathed and most of them grew during the pandemic. So and that's them. I mean, it was nothing really that I did other than just bring them together and facilitate.

Speaker 2: 19:21

Well, your humbleness sticks out very well, mark, and I would say that, at the end of the day, you were the facilitator of all that, and we all tend to want to bounce back to the guy who was organizing it. Hey, when are we getting back together? Hey, you know, can I ask the group this? So there is absolutely a position for you in reference to how the CEOs see each other. And again, mark Sinkow, evan, do you have any closing words for us?

Speaker 3: 19:47

Just again, you know Mark provides a great service. The other word that Mark mentioned once and we probably didn't spend enough time on, is accountability. And again, when you've got that kind of setting where people are holding each other accountable, there's a facilitator kind of overseeing that I know with both my buying business and Craig's business, accountability is everything. So again, I think that that piece really helps and again I would strongly encourage folks to reach out to Mark.

Speaker 2: 20:15

Awesome Pleasure. Thanks for having me. Sure thing. So everyone listening. The ultimate place to go to hear great business advice and we bring on great guests who can help your business grow is the sales and marketing playbook. You can hear us on Amazon, you can hear us on Apple, you can hear us on what's the other one called?

Speaker 3: 20:38

Yeah, if you're really glutton for punishment, you can see us on YouTube.

Speaker 2: 20:41

Well, you can watch us. You know we are some good looking guys. So again, the Sales and Marketing Playbook. You can visit our website, you can go to our YouTube. We'll put it into the links of the videos. And again, thank you, Mark, and we'll talk to you guys next time. Have a great day.

Speaker 1: 21:06

Have a nice day. Thank you for joining us on this exhilarating journey through the world of sales and marketing. Remember, the playbook is in your hands and the possibilities are limitless. Keep exploring, experimenting and innovating, and watch as your business reaches unprecedented levels of success. Don't forget to subscribe to the Sales and Marketing Playbook Unleashed on all major podcast platforms, and follow us on YouTube, facebook and LinkedIn for even more exclusive content. Until next time, keep hustling and keep winning.